Re[2]: Auxiliary power support for PCI

[Gary Solomon <Gary_Solomon@ccm.jf.intel.com>]

---------------------------------- Forwarded ----------------------------------
From: Gary Solomon at JFCCM7
Date: 5/19/97 11:18AM
To: pci-sig-request@znyx.com at SMTPGATE
Subject: Re[2]: Auxiliary power support for PCI
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Text item: 

     Would like to acknowledge the need to do better on the power supply 
     side to facilitate these emerging "virtually connected" LAN and modem 
     capabilities.
     
     The need for greater aux power capacity, as well as increased 
     conversion efficiency at lighter loads is something that Intel's 
     Platform Architecture Lab is working on in conjuction with some of the 
     planet's leading p/s vendors.
     
     The current dual mode spec (NLX) addresses the needs of the platform 
     for 1997 and into 1998, however as the full complement of SW and HW 
     ingredients come online, significantly more headroom will be required.
     
     A new dual mode p/s spec targeting impact for 2h/1998 and beyond 
     volume market segment production should be nearly complete by the end 
     of this quarter.   Please stay tuned.  
     
     As yet to be resolved, however, is the vehicle for actually getting 
     this aux supply up to the PCI add-in card.  I've gotten a good mix of 
     feedback in support of an ECR to get a new pin allocated, and would 
     appreciate hearing business/technical reasons why this new pin would 
     be justified and valuable from your vantage point.
     
     Thanks, and regards,
     
     Gary Solomon
     Sr. Staff Engineer
     Platform Architecture Lab  -  Intel
     gary_solomon@ccm.jf.intel.com


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RE: Auxiliary power support for PCI
Author:  pci-sig-request@znyx.com at SMTPGATE
Date:    5/19/97 10:16 AM


Thanks for the ATX web site.
     
Re 100mA. Try keeping a 100Mb/s Ethernet Adapter alive and leave enough = 
power for a modem adapter!!!!
     
-----Original Message-----
From:     B. P. Lame' [SMTP:blame@prolog.com] 
Sent:     Sunday, May 18, 1997 9:53 PM
To:     'Tony Goodfellow'; 'PCISIGList'
Subject:     RE: Auxiliary power support for PCI
     
Uh, isn't this what I said the first time?  I wouldn't expect widespread = 
use (as compared to other form-factors) of  ATX for at least another = 
year, but do what you want.  Regarding the 5Vsb 100mA limit on your = 
supply, if you design with power conservation in mind, you should have = 
no trouble powering all your system wake-up logic with much, much less = 
than 100mA (on a modem, you need only to power the ring detector ckt).  = 
Unfortunately, unless you are doing an integrated motherboard design, = 
ATX will not solve your problem very well.  In my opinion, you might as = 
well forget about an ECN to change a PCI reserved pin to 5Vsb because of = 
the logistics of it's use and availability - not just for PCI in the = 
consumer market, but PCI in its several other environments and = 
form-factors as well.
     
The ATX spec is not directly a part of the MS On-Now initiative, but is = 
an attempt (by the Intel-MS alliance?) to create a more integrated, = 
generic PC form-factor, that is slightly better suited for mass = 
commercial consumption.  It actually retains many of the integrated = 
qualities that Apple designed into the Mac series, but creates an "open = 
standard" available for use by any third party supplier of any component = 
(thus helping to ensure it's real life as a defacto standard nurtured by = 
Intel).
     
See:  http://www.teleport.com/~atx/
=20
--
Opinions are mine and not necessarily those of the company I keep. 
Brooks Lame'
Engineer, Pro-Log Corp.
     
On Sunday, 18 May, 1997 14:17, Tony = 
Goodfellow[SMTP:tonygd@earthlink.net] wrote:
> There is a solution that can and does work. The solution is the use of = 
ATX power supplies. The ones we have seen are form/fit the same as the = 
standard "PS-2" style silver boxes. They have an additional connector = 
that provides 5Vsb (5V standby). In addition they have a PWRON line. The = 
PWRON line is used to power-on (and off) the main supply. This means = 
that the whole system is powered down except those items powered by = 
5Vsb. A device such as a modem can be powered by 5Vsb, activate PWRON = 
and bring the whole system to life.=20
>=20
> There are several PSU suppliers offering these supplies but most are = 
at the "sampling" stage. I believe ASTEC was the first but they only = 
provide 100mA of power. This is just not enough for many applications. = 
Other supplies are now specifying 700-800 mA.=20
>=20
> There is a connector specified but not much has been said about add-in = 
adapters. It seems that most of the work has been done by m-board = 
oriented folks.=20
>=20
> The ATX psu, is I believe, part of the MS On-Now initiative, as is the = 
provision of "ring-indicator" as a means of waking up a "snoozing" PC. I = 
have not seen any specs on that connector etc..
>=20
> If anyone has more info, or where to find it please post it. 
>=20
> Thanks
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From:     B. P. Lame' [SMTP:blame@prolog.com] 
> Sent:     Thursday, May 01, 1997 11:47 AM
> To:     Mailing List Recipients
> Cc:     'PCISIGList'
> Subject:     RE: Auxiliary power support 
>=20
> On Tuesday, 29 April, 1997 18:29, Eric Rehm[SMTP:eric@equator.com] = 
wrote:
> > Hi.  Since I'm interested in this and no one has responded, I'll 
> > post this again.  Any comments on how a modem or multifunction
> > add-in card w/modem is supposed to handle this? 
> >=20
> > /eric rehm
> > eric@equator.com
> > 206.812.1290 x213
> >=20
> > ----------
> > From:      Tad Ball
> > Sent:      Monday, April 14, 1997 11:19 AM 
> > To:      Mailing List Recipients
> > Subject:      Auxiliary power support 
> >=20
> > Hi,
> >=20
> > We're interested in developing a power-managed PCI device that is 
> > capable of generating wake events from the D3cold state, and I'm
> > concerned about the support for auxiliary power in the 1.0 rev of = 
the
> > power management spec.  Specifically, I'm concerned that there is no
> > standard way for add-in cards to get trickle power from the system.=20 
> > Near as I can tell, if you are not a motherboard device you have to = 
have
> > some sort of external power source.  This seems bulky, cumbersone, = 
and
> > rather user-unfriendly to me.
> >=20
> > True power-managed buses like PCMCIA and CardBus have had support = 
for
> > these sorts of devices for a long time, and I'm disappointed that = 
the
> > PCI Power Management spec doesn't have similar capabilities.  What's = 
the
> > rationale for omitting standardized trickle power?  It certainly = 
seems
> > like any add-in that wants to generate PME to wake a sleeping system = 
is
> > going to need it (functions like Modems, Network adapters, etc). 
> >=20
> > What do other people think of this? 
>=20
> The power management spec does suggest some ways to deal with this.  = 
An on-card rechargeable supply would probably be the cleanest.  But = 
sure, a PCI connector RESERVED pin could be defined for 5v Soft-Power to = 
provide some limited amount of power while the main supply is off.  = 
However, as of yet, the ATX power supply is the only common spec supply = 
that supports 5v Soft-Power and I'd guess > 95% of all PCI mother = 
boards/backplanes sold today still use PS/2 type supplys, which have no = 
support for Soft-Power.  Since it's not very practical to _require_ = 
Soft-Power support in all PCI systems, your card could not rely on its = 
availability and you'd probably need some config jumper for that.  And = 
lastly, how should 5v Soft-Power be handled in hot-swapping?
>=20
> --=20
> Brooks Lame'
> Engineer
> Pro-Log Corporation
> blame@prolog.com
> 408.646.3631

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Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 10:16:14 -0700
Subject: RE: Auxiliary power support for PCI
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