RE: The Cost of Developing A PCI Card

["Bill Zevin" <billyz@us.ibm.com>]

Kevin,
I don't think the Tek 465B is going to be of much use.  As you have
mentioned, you need a (digital) oscilloscope that has a much higher analog
bandwidth (and associated digital sampling rate).  Think edge rates.  The
analog bandwidth spec'd describes (most likely) a sine wave.  Even a 33Mhz
'square'ish waveform is going to have components higher than 100Mhz.   If
you need to measure a signal with a rise time of 1ns, then you need at
least 1Ghz of analog bandwidth (probably a bit more).  Now this is measured
at the probe tip, where the signal located.  Most scopes spec the bandwidth
at the connector to the amplifier.  Effective bandwidth (analog) can
dramatically change once the probe is attached to the amplifier.  I forget
the formula, but there is one.  It is a combined function of the probe
bandwidth and the amplifier (scope) bandwidth.  I would try to avoid using
high capacitive passive probes.

Once the analog bandwidth is determined, then you have to consider the
digital sampling rate.  But more than likely it is going to be enough.
Some scopes have modes where the digitizing rate can be increased depending
upon how many channels are used.  Even though Nyquist says to sample at
twice the data rate, most digital oscilloscopes offer more.

I would not be too concerned about the fact that Agilent's Infiniium scopes
are Win based.  I balked at this also.  But using the scope as a scope, it
is very reliable.  I have also used Tek's TDS694C and the newer TDS7404.
The latter is also Win Based.

Just like the Agilent 16500 Logic Analysis systems the Tek TLA600 systems
needs to have acquisition cards attached.  So the availability and types of
cards you choose are the more important decision.  I have used the 16500
system in the past with many different acquisition modules (16550, 16555).
Both of this cards should well for state analysis of the PCI bus. I have
not really used Tek's TLAs.


Regards,
Bill



                                                                                                                                     
                      "Kevin Brace"                                                                                                  
                      <kevinbraceusenet@h        To:       pci-sig@znyx.com                                                          
                      otmail.com>                cc:                                                                                 
                                                 Subject:  RE: The Cost of Developing A PCI Card                                     
                      03/29/2002 02:25 AM                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                     


Thanks, Austin for the helpful answers.
I looked around for Tek 465B, and it seems inexpensive, but is 100MHz
bandwidth enough for PCI?
I heard that to deal with a 33MHz signal, I need to have bandwidth 5 times
of the frequency I am dealing with, and 10 times is desirable.
Also for HP 16500B, I found a refurbished one for about $700, but it seems
like I will have to buy several more expansion card to make it useful.
Am I correct about that?
Also, is Tektronics TLA 600 series a good logic analyzer?
Yes, it is very expensive (TLA 612 costs $8,000 . . .), but it looks like a

nice logic analyzer. (TLA 600 series has Windows 2000 in it. I am not a fan

of Microsoft, but I guess the user will be more familiar with the user
interface because it is Win2K-based. I heard that some Agilent
oscilloscopes
have Windows 98 in them. I cannot believe putting Win98 in oscilloscopes
considering how unreliable Win98 is.)
Regarding software tools, don't I have to do signal integrity analysis
before fabricating the PCB?
Protel 99 SE says it comes with an integrated signal integrity analysis
tool, but is it actually useful for things like PCI, or will I have to buy
one separately?



Thanks,



Kevin Brace (In general, don't respond to me directly, and respond within
the mailing list.)



>Hi Kevin,
>
>For your PCB my suggestion would be to go to
>www.SierraProtoExpress.com and see for your self.
>It depends on how fast you want the board, and how big it is.
>
>I typically spend $2000 for around 10 pieces of a PCI board for
>prototypes.
>In large quantity, like 1000, the cost goes down to around $20 or less
>each.
>
>You need a schematic capture program and PCB layout program.  These
>costs can range from sort of free to thousands of dollars.
>Heck, try eBay!  I guess if I was on a low budget, I'd try Eagle is it?
>
>As far as logic analyzers and oscilloscopes go, again, try eBay.
>I can recommend for low cost exceptional logic analyzers, the HP 16500
>series (get the B with a 10 base T network connection) or
>Kontron PLA/2.
>For scopes, Tektronix 465B or get a 16530/31 card for the logic analyzer,
>though I really do recommend a stand alone scope.
>You'll probably spend under $1000 for both a logic analyzer and
>scope.
>
>Austin

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